Air Arms TX200: Part 2
by B.B. Pelletier
First, a correction from yesterday. I said the Air Arms website shows the TX barrel to be 14", and that was wrong. The tech data differentiates between the true barrel and the "overtube." The barrel is 335mm and the overtube is 395mm. The TX200Mark III barrel length is really over 13".
Today, I'll address everything that I didn't get to yesterday.
A recoilless TX!
The TX200SR was a recoilless version of the rifle that used the sledge anti-recoil system - much like today's Diana RWS 54. I owned one for a brief time. I emphasize brief because the SR was as far from a TX as it's possible to be! For starters, the action never locked up. It just flopped around loose in the stock all the time. Very disconcerting! If the rifle wasn't close to level when you shot it, you felt the recoil. Since I bought it to shoot field target and had to shoot into a treed area, I felt the recoil a lot and as far as I was concerned, the mechanism was a waste of time. The trigger needed extra linkage due to the sliding mechanism - and it was horrible! The gun had a two-stage cocking effort that took nearly 60 lbs. of effort to complete - for about 12 foot-pounds of muzzle energy! On top of everything else, it wasn't as accurate as my TX200 Mark II.
I sent my rifle to Ken Reeves, one of the top tuners at that time (1996). He specialized in tuning the SR, so it came back much nicer than it went out, but the trigger still had some creep. Ken suggested that I push the action forward in the stock during cocking to reduce the effort, but it was still 37 lbs. of force. A lot of work ($130 in '96) produced a rifle that was still not up to the TX200 Mark II (the current model in 1996). I think today's Mark III is even better than the Mark II. It's no surprise that Air Arms quit making the SR at the end of '96.
The Hunter Carbine
The TX200HC or Hunter Carbine is a shortened version of an already short rifle. It was developed when the longer Mark II was still the principal TX200, and at that time it represented a big difference in length. But the new Mark III is shorter than the Mark II, so the Hunter Carbine is not that much shorter anymore - just about three inches. The rifled barrel is just 9.5" long, which is pretty short for a springer. I've never owned one of these but I have shot the 12 foot-pound models. They're very similar to a TX200, but they have a shorter barrel that makes for an increased jolt when the gun fires. They develop less power in the FAC models, also because of the shorter barrel. And the shorter cocking lever means an increase in cocking effort - so much so that Air Arms puts a cocking aid handle on the Hunter Carbine that's not on the regular TX200.
The Hunter Carbine is a more compact air rifle than its big brother - the TX200 Mk III.
Trigger and accuracy are pretty much the same as the TX200. Air Arms says you lose 2 foot-pounds in the .177 high-power FAC version compared to the TX200 and one foot-pound in .22. It has a threaded insert to accept a silencer. No legal silencer is available here in the U.S., so the muzzle report will be higher than the TX200.
What about .22 caliber?
The TX200 Mk III and Hunter Carbine are available in .22 caliber as well as .177. By virtue of its very short barrel, the Hunter Carbine does not develop much more power in .22 than in .177 (this data was taken directly from the Air Arms website). Only the TX200 Mk III shows the classic 20 percent power increase when you move up to .22. The TX200 isn't a magnum spring rifle by today's standards. Instead, think of it as the nicest combination of shooting behavior and reasonable power you can buy. Will it work for hunters? Absolutely! Is .22 caliber the way to go? Yes, in the TX200; not as positive in the Hunter Carbine, where the power increase isn't that great.
Please understand that this whole report is based on my personal feelings about these air rifles. Any one of them would make a fine rifle, and I've been out-shot by all of them! I've tried to explain why I feel the way I do, and you must decide which gun to buy based on your own criteria.
posted by B.B. Pelletier @ 4:30 AM
120 comments
120 Comments:
Is there a market for the TX200 SR? Any sense of the current value of one?
Great blog, by the way!
Elk,
A TX200SR is a desirable airgun. Some shooters seem to love it, despite my comments. I think it should probably command as much as a TX, if not more, for it certainly sold for more when it was being made.
If you mean should Air Arms revive the model, however, the answer is an emphatic NO. The SR was never as well-received as the TX, for what I feel were valid reasons.
B.B.
After being on back order for 3 months for a MarkIII in 0.22, I jumped at the chance when I found a HC. For an extra $15 it came with a plastic insert that screws into the muzzle and seems to activate the moderator ( I live in the US, I assume it is legal?). With it, it is much quieter than my CF-X. It is extremely accurate and the cross hairs barely move off the bullseye when I shoot. No rattling or jumping. As for power, I never get a chance to shoot past 25 yds and it has plenty of power for that. I bought it for the accuracy and smooth operation, and it delivers. My left elbow has been bothering me since I got it, but I'm sure that will go away. Some day I want to shoot a MIII to see the difference, but I am very happy with my choice.
MCA
MCA,
I hope our readers see your comment. This is the "difference" that I have been trying to convey in my writing.
The plastic insert is just a finishing cap and it is legal. In Europe, they offer a true baffled silencer that screws into the threads and quiets the gun a little more, though as you note, it's pretty quiet now.
I'm glad you have experienced the TX200.
B.B.
BB,
You mentioned a power decrease in the carbine version .22. "They develop less power in the FAC models, also because of the shorter barrel." And "By virtue of its very short barrel, the Hunter Carbine does not develop much more power in .22 than in .177 (this data was taken directly from the Air Arms website). Only the TX200 Mk III shows the classic 20 percent power increase when you move up to .22."
How does the shorter barrel on a carbine SPRINGER cause a decrease in power in comparison to the full length version?
Or did I miss something?
dsw
BB,
I'm not talking about the .177 to .22 power diff.
dsw
dsw,
I thought I covered this in the past, but if not I apologise. Apparently with a modern spring powerplant it takes at least 11 inches to achieve max velocity. That comes from Cardew. So a 9.5-inch barrel is going to give you less-than-maximum velocity.
B.B.
Yeah, now that you mentioned it, I can recall it being said by "the kinetic energy guy" as well.
btw, I read Middleton's book at your recommendation. (whew!, some read there!)
thanks
dsw
Ok, I gotta ask... what exactly is FAC?
An air gun with reduced power per some regulations I presume.
dsw
dsw (and everyone else who wondered)
FAC stands for Firearm Certificate. In the United Kingdom, an air rifle must have less than 12 foot-pounds of muzzle energy and air pistols less than six. When they develop more than 12/6, respectively, they are considerd firearms and require a firearms certificate to own. So the shorthand for a gun that develops over 12 foot-pounds is FAC.
B.B.
Ahhh,
So FAC's are AG's over 12FP's in UK but are not FAC's in US because AG's over 12FP's in US are OK? :-)
dsw
dsw,
Yes, and it goes farther than that. The world airgunning community has taken to calling anything that is restricted in their country an FAC, so you may hear the term used in a broader context than just the UK.
For example, in Canada the limit is velocity, not power. Anything over 500 f.p.s. is a firearm. So some Canadian airgunners use the term FAC. I'm not sure it's the official term used in Canada, but I have heard it used that way conversationally.
B.B.
BB,
I was reading and saw that the weihrauch HW97K had 12FP's.I want to know if the U.S model has more.And if not,is there a way to make it more powerful without losing accuracy?
CF-X guy
CF-X guy,
I don't know where you were, but go to this page and see what Pyramyd Air is selling. It way over 12 FP.
http://www.pyramydair.com/cgi-bin/model.pl?model_id=829
B.B.
BB,
Thanks,I read it on an UK site.
CF-X guy
BB,
Sorry,but I checked and I didnt see anything about foot pounds.Could you tell me yourself how many does it have?Thanks
CF-X guy
CF-X guy,
You know how to do this. It's a springer, so figure a light pellet. In .177 figure 7.5 grains. In .22 figure 12.5 grains.
Use the calculator in the article, "Muzzle energy" on Pyramyd's site.
Calculate the energy and give us a report.
B.B.
BB,
It sayed below 15FP's.I only want to know the max I can get.What happens is that If they say the max velocity is 730fps and I want to know the foot pounds of a 28 grain eun jin I cant get it cause I dont know the speed that ill achive with that pellet in that rifle.I mean that I cant calculate all on 730fps because the velocity changes with each pellets.Hope you understand what im saying.
CF-X guy
CF-X Guy,
If you know the weight of the pellet and the muzzle energy of the gun the rest will come out pretty accurate on that calculator.
According to the calculator a 28gr pellet traveling at 730fps has 33.14 fp at the muzzle. We know that's too high for muzzle energy so the speed must not be true.
Now we go to the second section of the calculator.
A HW97 has a claimed fp of 17 (I think), let's assume it's true. put in 17fp and 28gr and what do you get?
P S your not mad at me for joking with you previously about changing your name are you?
dsw
If that doesn't do it for you try guessing until the numbers make sense.
example: Hw97 is rated at 730fps and you know they're not going to test with a 28gr pellet, right? But plug that # in anyway and keep adjusting it 'till you get to something reasonable, like the sugested 12.5gr by BB.
You can do it!
dsw
dsw,
Good to have you back!!!!!!!!!!!!
I dont know what you mean about the name stuff but NO im not mad at you.Your my pal.Anyways,I read that you were going to buy the tx200,and I think its great!!!!!!!
Ill be buying a weihrauch hw97k myself!!!!!!!!.When you get it send me some pics.OHHH and I forgot to tell you that since you gave the cf-x with leapers scope pics I had them as my wallpaper untill I got mine!!!!Youll find it funny but I loved your rifle.If I have a chance to get a cam ill send some pics of mine.Well,hope your great!!!!!!!God bless you and take care.
CF-X guy
Nice. Yeah Ive been working out of town coming home few days, catching up on the daily posts and back to work.
I can't justify the extra $ for the TX200 over the CFX, so I won't be making that purchase soon, though it is tempting.
Let me know how you did with that calculator. You gotta play with it to get to the truth.
be well, dsw
BB,
This is off topic I know. Please forgive me. I just ordered a Air Arms 410 extra with the walnut thumbhole stock from Pyramyd Air. It was a shop rifle they used for testing. Do you have any expirience with the 410e Have you ever shot a AA 400/410? I'm also interested in other readers opinions on this rifle. Thanks.
Jason
BB.
i just found your blog, Awsome!
i was reading your blogs on ftlbs vs. fps. very eye opening. if i understood. if my gun shoot 17 ftlb then when i shoot pelets of diferant weight only the fps changes?
i have a powerline 1000sb do you know what the ftlbs rating of this gun is? i im looking for a new hunting rifle. what is the most powerful springer out? and witch would you recomend? .22 or .177?
thank you for your time
Dizzy
CF-X guy,
I'd say dsw pretty well answered the question for you.
But here are my thoughts. A spring rifle gets less energy with a heavier pellet, so if you calculate that the 12.5-grain gave less than 15 FP, you can bet the 28-grain will be less than that. So plug 13 FP into the calculator and see what kind of velocity you get with a 28-grain pellet.
Will it be exact? Probably not. Will it be in the ballpark? Probably so.
B.B.
Jason,
I haven't shot a 410, but I hear lots of nice things about them. From everything I've heard, you are getting a fine rifle.
Congratulations,
B.B.
dizzy,
No, there's more to it than that. Spring guns get higher power from light pellets, so if a certain spring gun is rated at 17 foot-pounds, we know that was determined with a light pellet. A heavier pellet will go slower, of course, but it won't just go slower to generate 17 foot-pounds. It may only develop 15 foot-pounds, which is even slower than you might have expected. The heavier the pellet, the less energy it develops in a spring gun.
Gas and pneumatic guns are the opposite. They generate higher power with heavier pellets - so everything turns around for them.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks for cleaning that mess I started about the calculator! It was getting too long to get into springer power / pellet weight proportion stuff.
dsw
Jason,
Nice airgun, that AA410. I spotted one a couple of weeks ago but didn't buy it. Came home and started looking it up, now I wish I had bought it!
Congrats. See ya all next week sometime.
dsw
BB,
Cool stuff going on here.I would like to buy tx200 or a hw97 or hw77.Some one sayed that the hw97 had square spring or some thing.Is that true?
PODEROSO
PODEROSO,
I'm still checking into it. I think they mean the 12 foot-pound version, but I'm not sure.
B.B.
dsw,
I have an AA410 Xtra .22, pre-power adjustment model, and yes, it is a fine piece of equipment. Very quiet. Just a little heavy for me in offhand mode, considering the scope adds weight to the top and thereby raises the center of gravity. All I have for chrony data is what you can see on sites where it is sold. I am looking to sell it and get a Condor, so if you're interested in the beech stock right hand version with sling studs I added, email me at leon_a28314@yahoo.com
BB,
So the one on this site is the 12foot-pound version or not?
PODEROSO
PODEROSO,
No, we calculated that the one on this site in .22 is just under 15 foot-pounds. The HW web site says 17 foot-pounds, so it's in there somewhere.
B.B.
BB,
Please give me the link to go into the hw web site.
PODEROSO
BB,
I thimk I found the web site.Its weihrauch-sport.com.They say there are 2 types of hw97k,the beech model and the laminated stock model,wich one does pyramid air carry?
PODEROSO
Well sorry to always throw out different questions on you guy's opinion's but everybody here has so much information and different experiences so my question today is if your scope is pretty much zeroed in at any given yardage say 20 yards and something is five to ten more yards out, if you don't mess with the windage and elevation and you just turn the parallex knob to focus in on your target shood you still be able to hit your target? Please can you help me figure this out.
Robert
BB,
I know that the weihrauch hw97k has a silencer.But,does the one in pyramid air has a silencer?
I ask because I read that in their website but dont know if its the same to US.
PODEROSO
Robert,
If you zero a scope at 20 yards the second intersection depends on pellet velocity. With .22 cal pellet moving at 650 fps the second zero will be at 25 or 26 yards. In between 20y and 26y the pellet will strike the off aimpoint by about a pellets width. At ranges closer than 20y and futher than 26 yards the pellet will strike below your aimpoint. As velocity increases the "flat" distance between the near and far zeros are longer with the pellet still striking near the aimpoint. I hope this helps. If you go to airguninfo.com and look under calculators you will find all kinds of programs for calculating airgunning data. Thanks.
Jason
yt
Thank you Jason for helping me out.
Robert
Jason,
Dude, you nailed it. Nice!
dsw
Leon,
I'll get in touch w/ ya
dsw
Jason,
Good answer on the scope zero! Thanks.
B.B.
BB,
I know that the weihrauch hw97k has a silencer.But,does the one in pyramid air has a silencer?
I ask because I read that in their website but dont know if its the same to US.
PODEROSO
PODEROSO and BB
I think its a silencer because even though were in the US,the silencer is attached to the gun.And if you read one of the fx200 post youll notice that that one too is a silencer.Still,BB would you confirm what im saying?
And also,I looked it up and all hw97 have the square spring.
BB
Also,
my results on the calculator were:
HW97K
A 14 grain pellet traveling at 730fps produces 16.57.
a 15 grain pellet going 730fps gets 17.75 so it surpases what the site sayed so it probably is not true.
But a 14.36 grain pellet going 730fps will get exacly 17 foot pounds!!!!!!!
BB,tell me what you think
CF-X guy
PODEROSO,
The U.S, HW97 does not have a silencer. It is a cosmetic part called a muzzle brake that does nothing.
Weihrauch will not export silenced airguns to the U.S.
B.B.
CF-X guy,
What I think is - you are getting too hung up on numbers. They are useful for establishing the general performance of an airgun, but no airgun performs exactly like the numbers say. So you can say an HW97 is a 17 foot-pound rifle in .22 and an AirForce Talon SS is a 25 foot-pound rifle, also in .22. That differentiates the power levels of the 2 rifles. But don't expect that either rifle will always perform exactly as the numbers indicate. There are variances in individual examples.
I know you understand this, but what I'm trying to say is that you should buy a rifle for ALL of its attributes; don't focus on velocity, alone.
We have established that the HW97 is a 17 foot-pound air rifle. That means that with different pellets, it should deliver from a low of around 13.5 to a high of perhaps 17.5 foot-pounds. The heavy pellets will be the lowest and the lightest will be the highest - in general. There will be a few cases where a heavier pellet will perform better than the general rule indicates and there will be a few cases where a lighter pellet will perform worse than expected. But the range of performance will be approximately what I've indicated.
So buy the rifle, if it has what you want.
And also seriously consider getting a chronograph at the first opportunity. I think once you see the actual numbers generated by every shot, you will gain a better appreciation of how this all works.
B.B.
BB,
OK,I understand.And Im going to buy it.I dont completely trust the numbers but since you asked me to check with the calculator that what I did.Thats what I got in the calculator but im not saying its real.Its just what you told me to check.
CF-X guy
well chrony here I come, in the end this is one peice of equipment that is a must have aside from the big ball of painters putty that I set up at any of the distances I am shooting at, this helps me check how a particular pellet acts on impact. above everything I think accuracy and maximum damage will help in getting the most out of whatever one shoots. Mine happens to be (it's O.K guys) a gamo 1250 in .22cal and this has me interested on it's REAL numbers at REAL distances.
Robert
Question,
Bought my first air rifle, a cfx, and was wondering if the scope mount usually wobbles from side to side by a small amount? Thanks
to the question above,
I own a cf-x and no I dont think that is right cause you woulnt be able to zero your scope.Wich mounts are you using and for wich scope?
CF-X guy
Wobbly scope mounts,
No, that is not right! The problem is air rifle scope dovetails and bases are not a uniform size, so mount makers try to get close to the more popluar models. Sometimes they will be off. You need a different set of rings for your CF-X.
Read the CF-X report to see what worked for me:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/02/gamo-cf-x-field-test.html
B.B.
Regarding my scope question, it is NOT the rings or scope that move but the actual mounting platform on the gun that is loose. However, from your responses I take it that this should be tight.
Thanks
Also, is there a way to tighten it?
Thanks for all your help
Gamo CF-X,
I believe the rail is attached with rivets. The gun has to be completely disassembled to fix it.
This is a warranty issue. If the gun is out of warranty it will have to be diassembled to fix.
B.B.
Hi B.B.
I've been interested in buying the AA TX200III and like the accuracy/quality features you've described. However, I find myself more inclined toward a more powerful 20+ ftlb springer. Does a TX200-like springer with higher energy come to mind? What would be your pick for the best combination of TX200 accuracy/qualities and 20+ ftlb energy?
Thanks!
Bill
Bill,
RWS Diana 54. No question.
B.B.
Hi, I have a TX200 with an unusual left-handed stock and brass or gold-plated trigger blade and guard. Can anyone tell me if those parts are after-market and who made them? See pics here:
http://www.sonic.net/~tahart/Site/index.html
and here:
http://www.sonic.net/~tahart/Site/images/TX200.html
Note that the items listed are not yet ready for public auction. They will be listed at www.auctionarms.com this month once I have determined values for each item. The private auction was for family members to pick and choose from in memory of our "Mike" who was killed in 2003. We're just now going through his air rifle collection to auction for his widow!
Tom,
The stock and trigger on this TX 200 Mark III appear to be made by Jim Maccari.
The box it's sitting on is also interesting. It's from Air Rifle Headquarters. Whatever gun it belongs to (NOT the TX 200) is worth a bit more for that.
If you don't get an offer of $300 for the Whisco 55N, I will pay that for it. Contact me at www.airgunwriter.com
B.B.
Hi B.B.,
That looks like a good offer for the 55N. It appears to be in its original Air Rifle Headquarters box, possibly circa 1980. A receipt is inside too (showing Serial #3939), and indicating repairs made back then (spring replacement..., testing, and chronometer score of 854 fps...), I'm not sure exactly when my brother bought it.
I didn't see a contact e-mail address on www.airgunwriter.com so I'm replying here.
What do you think the TX200 MKIII is worth? I just located its owner's manual.
There are quite a few Beeman's catalogues dating back to the mid or early 70's and a few old Air Rifle Headquarters catalogues too among all the other newsletters and flyers all about air guns...
tom
-----
One more note on the TX200, another contact thinks it looks more like a Michel A. stock, semi Tyrolean ...
Tom,
Go to www,airgunwriter.com
On the home page you will see the underlined words "Inquire for availability" under my name at the top of the page. Click on those words and an email page will pop up. It comes to me, only
I am interested in the rifle, but I don't like to do business on Pyramyd Air's website.
The TX200 Mark III with a walnut Tyrolean left-hand stock should be worth $600, in my opinion. Tyrolean stocks are in demand, and the TX is the finest affordable spring rifle ever made. That rifle is probably tuned, as well, but unless you know for sure, you can't say that.
The Beeman and Air Rifle Headquarters catalogs are worth some money. The first and second editions of Beeman's catalog have a black and white cover and usually sell for $500 in fine condition. The others sell in the $10-20 range, with the ones older than #12 being worth the most. Again, they must be in fine condition.
The ARH catalogues are in the same boat. They are all B&W and fetch $10-20, depending on condition.
Thanks,
B.B.
Tom,
That other person may be right about the stock. The back of the cheekpiece seems a little sharp for Maccari.
B.B.
B.B.,
You've sold me on the Diana 54 and after reading this and several other blogs I prob wouldn't have had to ask you all those questions. I do apologize for taking up so much of your time.
However, after reading about the TX200 you used to have that was tuned by two different Tuners I can't help but wonder if a little more power could be had by Tuning the current TX200MK3 and still retain it's wonderful qualities? Any thoughts??
Regards,
Bill S.
Bill S.,
I don't know if tuners can add power to a .22 TX 200 or not. I think not, but I don't know everything.,
The TX is a wonderful air rifle. If you get one you will not be disappointed. Don't let me talk you into something you don't want. If you want a TX - get one.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.!
I hope to own both one day...
My 2 cents, air rifles is not just all about power, how often do we shoot past 100 yards that we need more power on a springer and anything over 700fps is plenty on a springer. Tx200 mk3 in.22 will be a good target and hunting gun with the power it has. The .177 for hunting has pros and cons even tho it has more fps will not work f or my application. Tx200 mk3 in .22 is dual purpose for me. I can hunt and shoot targets with the accuracy in my area of range. Anything further is challenging but if you know your gun you will hit your mark.
Hope this helps
Gino
Gino,
You make a great point. Power without accuracy is useless but I think a minimum amount is needed as I’ll explain below:
B.B. convinced me to buy the Diana RWS 54 for both power and smoothness or "the ease to shoot accurately" as he puts it. Yet I'm sure it gets this ability from the anti-recoil system, otherwise I don't think it would be in the same league as the TX200. Quoting B.B. the 54 shoots a little over 800 fps. with a 14.3 grain .22 Premier. I think 800 to 850 is the ideal velocity for this caliber for both Hunting and long range paper punching. A Springer producing power above that is going to kick like a Mule and therefore be harder to shoot accurately…Que the Webley Patriot.
My point is that even though the TX200 is super smooth (without a anti-recoil system like the 54!!) it would be neat to have one that shoots a little harder. ***This is of course to give a Hunter/Target Shooter (Me) more options for accurate fixed barrel spring rifles in this price range.
Don’t get me wrong, if the TX200’s output can’t be increased from 17.5 to say 20 ft. lbs then that’s ok. I still want one in addition the Diana 54. It’s a great rifle and I can’t wait to get my paws on one. Regardless….
Hope this made sense. I’m known to ramble.
Thanks,
Bill S.
Amen ! Perfectly said. Most americans always want more more more even if we dont need it lol. Wait till you shoot the TX200 MK III for a day or two, you will get one as well to add toyour collection for sure. It got me hooked after 20 minutes and I settled for a used one at Pyramid air coz I couldnt wait for a new unit, besides a used one is sorta broken in anyways. Nice inputs here.
cheers
Gino
B.B.
What is the best way to pull the trigger without upsetting the form/stance or lessen the pulled shot. What other mods can you do to the TX200 MK III? Not that it needs it but as a hobby you always have that urge to modify or add things to it.
Thank you again
Gino
Gino,
The TX200 is so well-balanced that I advise against trying to tune it. I've never seen any one who could do better than the factory, and I've handled a lot of TX 200s.
B.B.
So true, Thank you again B.B.
I need your help clearing my mind, I am still torn to either get a new MK3 .177 cal or just stick to this used MK3 .22 cal????
Why do I even want the .177??? but I guess for what I shoot at (paper and silouettes, the .22 will do.
Will the .177 shoot better in competitions over 20 yards?
I practice mostly indoor in my garage at 10 meters. That is all I have for now and till I join the clubs all I have is 10 meters of fun. Maybe when I get better at the standing position then I will not complain as much.
I will just wait for tips from you on how to practice shooting so please advice me and help put an end on my .177 urge over the .22 cal. It will all end after the 30 days is up at the end of April (point of no return/swap).
Thank you again
Gino
Gino,
A .177 is cheaper to shoot because of pellet costs. A .22 is better for hunting.
If you like the rifle you now have, I would keep it. If you ever want to shoot field target, get a .177 because nobody shoots FT with a .22.
B.B.
Thank you B.B. I bought another MK3 in Beechwood trim (only one instock no walnut finish instock hehehe) on a .177 cal. I am sure I would enjoy that on the FT matches.
Will post as soon as it arrives.
:)
gino
B.B.,
Why aren't 22 calibers used in Field Target? Are they that much less accurate then 177?
Regards,
Bill S.
Bill S.,
The caliber selection for field target has nothing to do with accuracy. It has everything to do with the size (diameter) of the pellet.
Read Part 1 of the the blog of field target shooting for clarification:
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/07/introduction-to-field-target-part-1-how.html
http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2007/09/introduction-to-field-target-part-8.html
B.B.
BB
Okay so now I have my TX200 MK3 for field target in .177 cal and thank you for narrowing the selection for me I cant be happier.
Now comes the tricky part, I need your help/advice on a nice springer hunting rifle on a .22 cal that I can be as accurate and has enough power to shoot further than 30 meters to 50 and over if all possible.
I suppose a Benjamin super streak, RWS, Gamo might do or a Mendoza etc. and spending budget around $270 ish new or used but owning a TX200 MK3 made me a tad picky on trigger feel and quality and ease of cocking so I am really confused and don't want to ship back (not satisfied) any unit to save Pyramid air revenue.
I am looking for a rugged rifle that I need not worry if the stock gets banged up while hunting.
Gino,
Look at the RWS Diana 34 Panther.
B.B.
BB
Okay I am logged on and reading as usual.
Does the Panther pro without the open sites come in 22 cal? I do not like open sites on a break barrel, it just gets my palm scratched up and eventaully hurts.
The smooth muzzle/handle on the Pro is more feasable. Alos the droop part on the barrel scares me. Is that a big deal really or the C mont fixes that?
Thank you again
Gino
BB
Webley Tomahawk in 22 caliber, any comments on that gun? It looks really nice and they did not post the cocking effort so I am cluless if I can cock that break barrel and how does it shoot compared to the Panther.
Last question.I am debating to purchase back a used TX200 MK3 in 22 cal or a lighter, rugged, reasonable fps and most of all trigger adjustable rifle for hunting etc.
There are so many choices and it is driving me nuts. I almost bought a BAM B40 but Pyramid does not carry it on a 22 and a used 22 cal unit was sold today after I purchased it and got a call back after an hour with the bad news that it was no longer available.
If I get the RWS 34 panther, what mount will I use if I go with a 42 or 44 scope bell size and not worry about droop/accuracy on long shot kills? Also where to buy a muzzle to replace that plastic front site.
I really need a 22 cal so help me narrow it down. My heart is on the Panther 34 but the droop and how it ruins mounts scare me. But German built with plastics I dont mind.
Thank you
Gino
Gino,
The new scope BASE (not mount) that I designed and tested for Leapers (for a solid YEAR) will absolutely solve all scope droop and recoil stop problems in one simple fix. It will be available in June.
I have the blog report ready to go, but I'm not going to report it until close to the time people can order it.
So the .22 Panther is a wonderful choice.
As for the new Webley Tomahawk, it isn't the rifle I reported on in this blog. It's an entirely new design from Turkey, and Pyramyd Air has returned all the Webley Patriots of a similar design because they don't meet their quality standards. So go slow there.
If you can afford a TX 200, why don't you want to hunt with it? It isn't a handmade Holland & Holland. It's just a nice air rifle. I've shot field target in hurricanes with mine! They don't shrivel.
B.B.
Okay BB,
I will just stick to my 177 cal and do both with it, FT and hunt with it.
Last question. At 50 meters or more, which rifle will shoot better and at what caliber (177 or 22). RWS 34 Panther VS TX200 MK3.
Thanks again
Gino
Gino,
The TX 200 has the edge over most spring rifles, so it will outshoot the Panther at 50 yards.
Your requirements seem to have changed. Have you considered the RWS Diana 54 at all? It will shoot as well as the TX, and with less recoil.
B.B.
BB
I am still going with the 177 for FT and I have reserved a TX200 MK3 walnut in 177 cal with scope and rings, ammo etc. at Pyramidair so that is sorted.
I just miss the used 22 cal TX200 MK3 that I returned so I might get that one back to add to my collection or get something else. I did read and looked at the RWS54 but I have issues with a side lever set up and have not seen or fired that rifle so I am hesitant. The RWS 34 I will get but not until you have the base relaeased for the public.
I am starting to collect good rifles and with your help I will get them all sorted so I wont waste too much effort and revenue.
I really consider your experience and advices on these rifles. Any thoughts?
Thank you again
Gino
Gino,
The only comment is this: I screwed around and avoided the RWS Diana 54 for about a decade. Then I tested one. It is incredible!
When you finally get to shoot one, you'll see what I mean.
B.B.
BB
What caliber should I get the RWS 54? There is a used one to be had in 177 so I think I will sleep and decide when I wake up.
How about the HC TX200 in 177 is the barrel same as the MK3 shrouded?
But I know the RWS 54 will be a better choice.
I need to decide by tonight or sleep on it and see which one.
Thank you again
Gino
Gino,
I would only get the 54 in .22 to capitalize on the power.
The Hunter Carbine does not have the baffled shroud like the standard TX. That's why the barrel is shorter. It will be louder.
B./.
Well BB, if Pyramid will get around the RMA items on my account I could have bought another rifle by now. So everything is on a stand still till they get the credit sorted and I can get another rifle.
I am still waiting on the TX200 order in 177 cal but that wont be till the 16th of May.
The waiting is killing me LMAO..
gino
Gino,
At least you have your humor.
B.B.
BB
Question on pref. will the two piece mount be of an advantage over the one piece mount other than positioning?
Finaly got the RMA soted and they will ship 22 cal TX200 back tomorrow. Now the wait on the MK3 in 177 cal wont be too bad as long as I got my MK3 in 22 by next week.
Gino,
No, positioning is the big advantage of the two-piece mount.
B.B.
B.B.,
I just wanted to let you know that I got my Diana 54 in last week and to tell you how happy I am with it. Of course I'm still waiting on the new Leapers scope base….Hint Hint. The lady at Pyramid Air say’s it will be avail. In July now….Yikes!
I went ahead and mounted the Leapers 4-16x50 scope you recommended (w/Leapers one piece High Mount) just to see how bad the barrel droop problem was and also to see how accurately it would group. Needless to say the barrel droop was bad without the proper mount or base as it were..... However, at 20yrds. my second 3 shot string it put them all in a nice semi-round hole a little larger diameter than one .22 cal pellet with Zero felt recoil. Wow, you can't ask for much better than that!
I did notice however that the gun was extremely dry in operation. It sounds horrible during cocking and there's some surface rust and weird scratches visible inside the loading port where the compression chamber moves back and forth. I prob won't shoot it any more until I get it properly lubed. I'm thinking of sending it to Bob Werner (Charlie Da Tuna) for the proper lubrication and maybe even getting it Tuned while it’s there.
Regards,
Bill S.
Bill S.,
Your 54 sounds normal to me. All guns with the sliding compression chamber start out like yours with external scratches. Just shoot the gun and it will smooth out in time.
The exterior of the compression chamber has nothing whatsoever to do with the rifle's performance, anyway. What matters in what's inside the chamber, and the blue piston seal takes care of that.
B.B.
Update as of 5/2008.
BB
Owning both calibers is a joy. My 177 cal has the 8-32X56 Leapers scope and is accurate as it can be.
The 22 cal I will scope later as I have gotten 2 Airforce 4-16X50 that were both defective so I gave up on that brand.
Both rifles are so accurate (with the 177 on the better side)and the heavier weight makes it stable period. Shooting springers on the light side is a bit challenging due to the jump when fired. The TX200 mk3 does not do that at all. Outdoors all you here is the internal mechanics with a thud sound and feel.
I can share more info if needed.
Thanks again
Gino,
How about a guest blog of your initial impressions of the guns?
I think you're ready.
B.B.
B.B.,
I do see your point. As long as the cylinder itself is smooth there shouldn’t be a problem. I guess it’s the thought of a now $632.00 new German air rifle with surface rust squeaking and honking during operation that gets me…not to mention it is very loud when fired.
My question now is prob going to be a goofy one. I know you have a blog article waiting to be posted and I don’t want to spoil it but I need to ask you this:
I wasn’t aware the new RWS Base was on the Pyramid Web Site already so I didn’t know what it looked like or how it worked. After seeing It for the